Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
ABC Adopted Babies from China
ABC Adopted Babies from China

Episode 6 · 2 years ago

Her and I kinda understood that in between with Shelley

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This episode we speak with Shelley, a Canadian Chinese adoptee who just finished her Masters. She is now in the transition between education and work. Shelley shares her experience about being Canadian (mostly because I ask many questions), resources she used to connect with adoption, and more about religion. You can follow her @sea_shellz7 on Instagram. I also share a little insight about going back to China. Please email adoptedbabiesfromchina@gmail.com or DM @adoptedbabiesfromchinapod on Instagram/ Facebook if you would like to share your story. Thank you for listening!

Say China to different stories. You are the one, the one pop around the way and adopted baby, adopted babies from China. I'm Tara. Hello, it has been a month since beginning the PODCASTS and the time really has flown by. I don't know how everybody else feels, but it's kind of crazy. I originally had anticipated beginning this podcast post Katie's thesis because I really wanted Katie to also interview, but she is actually, as we have learned, going to continue writing post thesis, so we'll just bring her on when she's ready. Until then, I am excited to speak with our first adoptee who's outside of the US. I have shelley here with me. She lives in Canada and has been there since she was adopted. She just finished her masters and is now in the transition time between university and finding work during the pandemic. Hey, shelley, hi, how are you? I'm good. It's so great to be all your podcast so thanks for allowing me to know, answer questions and share my story. Of course. It was really excited to see you on the subtle Asian traits. Oh, I'm sorry, subtle Asian adoptee traits zoom call that could you? You actually introduced the group to me when we first talked and then I joined the group and then a day later I got a message from somebody else in the group to join the zoom call to somebody else being that guy that I've referenced in this podcast. But it is really funny that had probably what sixty something people on there. Yeah, it was a lot. It just keeps on growing every week, which is great because it's like cool to see the people's faces and match it to...

...the right posts of the group and I feel like, you know, I've become really close with some of the people, so it's fun. It is fun and it's also because I reach out to you on Instagram and you actually found the podcast through another person who I interviewed with. I think was Casey right the first interview. Yeah, because I follow her on instagram and then I saw her post featured of Oh that's so cool. So I'm trying to get more into learning about the adoptee community and making more connections. Then that's how I found your instagram page. So cool, and then I reached out and then all this stuff connected and then I found out that guy is in the group too and who haven't really actually talked to each other, just were connected now, so that's progress. Another cool thing that we do share is we are actually from the same province, yes, the jar down province. So, in addition to that, I would love for you to share more about your story and about living in Canada, because so many people who listen, I believe, are primarily in the US. Yeah, that's what I found kind of in connecting with other adoptees online. I know there are adoptees in Canada. I used to know someone I was growing up and then I've kind of lost touch. I do have a younger sister who's adopted it, so that's been nice having someone else in the family who's from like the same place. But yeah, I think in terms of living in Canada, I personally have like had a pretty good experience and, like my family, my mom has been very supportive and everything. So I have, I feel, like, a more positive perspective on my like adoption in general, based on like my mostly positive experiences like from childhood and everything. But yeah, it's been interesting connecting with the adoptees in America, but it's also been kind of sad hearing about the racism that's going on there. I know that there has been some instances in Canada and I think it's more prevalent in bigger cities, because I grew up and I still live in mostly kind of a suburban town...

...that's like pretty white, but I haven't had too many issues myself. But in kind of getting to know more about the experiences of people in the United States, like over the border, I follow some instagram of accounts that kind of share those incidents that are happening of kind of Anti Asian hate crimes. It is very sad to kind of it's important, I think, to like, you know, be selfaware and like educate yourself on those issues, but it's also kind of sad because I feel like, since I'm in a different country, it's like how can I help people? And like, you know, I've seen pose but like oh, email your representatives this and that, and it's like it feels disconnected, but it's still I feel like we're connected. I'm still feel like connected somehow a little way to the other adoptees. So and I'm just like the Asian community right there's a lot more negative energy revolving around, especially the virus and everything. It has extended beyond just agents, though. I think they're now sort of targeting people who will be s or people who are, I guess, really young. To just seems there's no there's no end to all the hate. It seems. I know it's very unfortunate, and my mom's Jewish, so I was raised with like a little bit of Judaism kind of, and I know also from like my connections with the online groups for that community that there has been a rise in anti Semitism and I've seen, like you know, examples of that in the United States and I think there's been maybe some in Canada as well. But so, like you said, I think it's just like a lot of minority groups, unfortunately, like, oh, yes, a lot of minority groups are getting a lot of I mean, I guess that hasn't really changed much in the US and fortunately, as we know, and you said you have a younger sister who's also adopted. I yeah, she's also adopted and I went with my mom to adopt her when I was like four and a half years old because my mom kind of asked. So do want to hear your sister and I was very like Oh, I was excited about the idea and I was like, oh, would it be someone who looks like me? And...

...said she said yes, and I was talking to her about it recently and she gave me the option to come with her or she also if she I didn't want to come, she would have left me here with like a family friend or something, but I wanted to go with her. I don't remember much of it, unfortunately, so I wish like I remembered more of the experience, but I think I was too young. But yeah, definitely like having a sister who's adopted and even though, like she is younger and she has some different perspectives and she doesn't talk about adoption as much, but I feel like the I've brought it up in my family more so since kind of being a part of some of the online adoptee group, I've been able to kind of learn a little bit more of her experiences and she's not as interested in kind of connecting with other adoptees. Are Learning more about that stuff right now, which is totally fine because when I was younger, I don't think I was at that phase yet of kind of discovering and exploring more about kind of my identity and connecting with other people. But it's still really nice to have someone that, even though we don't talk about as much, we still both have that great erstanding and that lived experience. She is from a different province in China. It's cool because I know some other adoptees. They have other Asian adopted siblings but yes, like a different Asian country. So I do like they were both from China and that I like wet with my mom to go get her and I just remember I was like in love with her when I like the baby, and I like even when I was younger, like I love babies and we're pretty close now, which is good, like we're good friends, and so I like that to just having like right connect with and then Chinese adoption actually played a role in your undergraduate studies at your university, Right. Yes, so, when I was in my Undergrad I took a thesis course and I was trying to think of what topic I want to spend a year researching and writing about, and in talking with my mom, I think it was her idea where she's like, Oh, why don't you do research on something it's like, you know, related to you and your story. So that's how I kind of came up with the idea of interviewing other adoptees. So I connected with a total of nine people, and...

...one of them was my sister. I interviewed them based on their experiences, kind of asking them, you know, generally about their story and also, more specifically, on certain themes surrounding, you know, sense of place and belongingness, whether it's within Asian communities or kind of like white spaces, because a lot of US group in white kind of neighborhood, and also kind of the feelings that they have of themselves, like how much do identify as Canadian? How much you identify as being Chinese? Like how is that change over time or like, you know, in different spaces over your lifetime? So that was really cool and I touched a bit also on like their connection to China. If, you know, they want to go back, if they want Leo, how they feel about it. I have some people I've heard referred to it as like, you know, their home or homeland kind of other people just said if I went back, it would be for tours and purposes, like I'd be a traveler. I'd be like a visit, right, but they didn't necessarily feel like it was their home, which is totally understandable because, I mean a lot of us were adopted when we were babies. Exactly. Yeah, then of your podcast. Yes, ironically, I was not a baby baby, but I was your age when you went back to China to pick up your sister. Essentially, that sounds really weird, when you went to bring your sister home. Yeah, I say some of these terms, I'm like, sounds very much like groceries or something, but really that. And then, but I was the same age. You're right, most most of us were babies. So that it's heads the name the podcast. HMM. And then, so when you were doing that research for your thesis, what were some resources that you were able to connect or refer to, because I know you're probably about a few your few years, definitely younger than I am, and I know growing up it was kind of tough to find. I want to say it's tough to find resources really to connect with. Yeah, for sure. When I was doing research, like because it was my thesis, I have to try to find academic sources. So I was looking at journal articles and papers. But it is hard because a...

...lot of the researcher it was about adoption, you know, would be focused maybe on the adoptive parents, because I feel like there's not enough research from the adoptees perspective because, you know, a lot of us are still young or maybe we're starting to do research. There's not as much of the history is with maybe like Korean adoption, for people to be old enough to kind of put of work themselves. So a lot of it was from people doing either research on children who are adoptees and kind of focusing on their development as they were kind of going through childhood adolescence. But I was kind of looking more at adoptees closer in my age, so people who are either like, you know, late teenagers or early s looking at you know, after you've kind of had maybe time to reflect on it and think about it, and I feel like a lot of adoptees, for me, like when you go to university. That's when I kind of thought about it a lot because it was the first time I was around a lot of other Asians, like for the first time that in the you know, they weren't adopted, they were from Asian family. So that was kind of a time where I was feeling like, Oh, I look like these people, but I don't necessarily fit in with them because I didn't have the same, you know, childhood and I wasn't raised the same way. So I think it was interesting to into people who are either in university or kind of coming out of it, because right experienced like me. It was definitely interesting. Some of it was like on Korean adoptees or other places, but not missly from China. Okay, it was hard to find specific resources that were about because I was focusing on Canada. So it's hard to find about adoptees who were from China and who live in Canada who were in my age. Brad Ray, you had because it's pretty specific. It's already like a niche topic research, just like international adoption, for but to kind of make it even more narrow my research, I was like yeah, there's not much out there, so I had to kind of, you know, rely on things that were related to maybe other Asians and then other people who live like in America now in the stead of Canada, but then also kind of like online and write and reading myself, like my mom before she adopted me. She had a number of books that...

...she read and so she's past some of them on to me and even now I'm still slowly kind of reading through some of them. Right. It was interesting in that way and also just looking online social media and some of the facebook groups that I was in. I didn't, I wasn't a part of settle Asian adoptee traits at the time. Otherwise I would have tried to gain participants from that group because I think there's a wealth of information there and people who are sure willing to share their stories. But I sampled upon that like a bit later. Oh yeah, so it kind of a mix of like online resource resources, academic articles. You know that from it, like papers and stuff. Did you go to a university? It was pretty like diverse as well, and you said there were a lot more Asian people. In general, I feel like it was pretty diverse. It was in like a slightly big years city than like where I actually live, because I commute. I mean they're there was still a lot of boy people, though, but it was just in comparison to like where I grew up, there was a definitely a stronger like Asian. There's a lot of like clumps to there's like Asian interest clubs, so that was cool because there'd be one for different like Asian ethnicities. So that was cool to see. And but then I didn't end up joining any of them because I feel like I really fit in. I see, I guess geographically in Canada, where are you? You're close to a close to Toronto, or I'm like an hour away from Toronto. See, I'm in like Southern Ontario and the school I went to is in Hamilton. Okay, I can't pretend I know my Canadian geography. I just fe like Toronto's like the Big City you can go to relatively easily from the US. Yeah, it's Ron definitely has way more diversity. So I think that, you know, if I had gone to university in Toronto, it would have been, you know, even more like Ow, I'm sure, from different ethnic so that's why mine, in comparison, depending on what you know, if you compared to where I went to high school versus compared to a place in Toronto, would be like somewhere in the middle, I guess, in terms of thing. Great, that's pretty fascinating. So it's pretty similar to the US as well, depending where you go to university, I...

...mean like more urban areas. Of course there's going to be more diversity. That doesn't change. So there are similarities. It's just fascinating because I don't think I really talked a lot of people in, you know, a Canada or anywhere else except the US, especially with other adoptees. I mean on that zoom called there was like for other people who are in Maryland, near where I am currently, and they all went to college park, which is like a very big university here. Like the world is actually long smaller than I thought. Yeah, and then talking to some of the Canadian adoptees that do a little bit closer. You know, they'll be talking about like a main street downtown Toronto and I'm like, definitely been to Toronto, and I mean most people will not know where that is, but I can be like yes, I know where that is, I know what you're talking about. It's cool to kind of, you know, connecting mental that are closer to you. And then it's like maybe, hopefully, after all this, like I can actually meet some people, unfortunately as many as I would like, because it's we're all over over the place from the step of being in the facebook group, to the zoom calls, to then actually being able to schedule time to like hanging out in person. Oh yeah, and then as you meet probably so many people from the US, you know if you come over the borders and you'll have like plenty of places to go stay too, if you wanted. I guess I got. Yeah, way cool. It goes the same way reverse. We can go to Canada and like, Oh, I know somebody. Yes, for sure, it's like Yah, because kids pretty nice from it is so beautiful with all the nature and everything. You mentioned earlier that you were raised Jewish. Is that correct? Yeah, so my mom's Jewish in terms of religionship raise us that religiously. So I just know a little bit about the religion in the culture through her. And I also joined a Jewish sorority. So that was interesting because I wanted to learn more about it and I feel, like you know, I have like a number of Jewish friends from that sorority. So it's been cool learning more about that and there's actually in the sorority after I joined, a few years later...

...there was another adoptee from China that ended up joining our sorty two. So that was cool because on her and I kind of understood that in between of your you know, maybe we were raised with some of it, the culture and the religion, but then you don't look Jewish because you're interacted. So it was nice to being able to kind of share that with one of the person who gets that aspect. Okay, so you guys were at the same time too. Yeah, because I've been in it for a few years and then she joined because she's younger than me, but then I stayed in it in the first year went my master's because I did it at the same university I did my Undergrad. There was some overlap by like a year or in a bit where we were in it together and like we can kind of bond over that. That's nice. So she probably really appreciated that too's like, ooh, I'm not alone here in this environment. Yeah, let's take a break. So did you have a when you turn thirteen? It's like Zip Bar and bought. It's fun. Is that the right yeah, it is. Yeah, so I did not end up having one because, again, I wasn't really raised that religiously. Okay, so it's weird because even though, I mean my mom says you are Jewish because it gets passed on through the mother. But in my head I'm like, well, I'm adopted and it's usually like a blood thing. I don't know, I feel like my belonging this with in the Jewish community has been iffy because my friends will be like, Oh, yeah, like you're Jewish. If you don't have to let other people tell you whether you are or not, as long as you feel like you want to identify that way, than sure, like your mom's Jewish and like you have through your mom that history of her family and everything. And I know, I think more than the average non Jewish person and I've through the sorority and through like a little bit of the community, the Jewish community on campus, like I kind of learned more in terms of like religion and the way I lived Daytoday, it doesn't like affect me that much. I think if I maybe did go through more of some of the traditions and the practices of Judaism that I'd feel more confident about saying that I was...

Jewish, like if I kept kosher, if I knew how to speak a bit of Hebrew, if I went to Jewish day school, like some of the things that my friends have gone through that when they talk about it, you know, the stuff I didn't experience. So I think that makes it a bit more confusing of being able to say, like, yeah, I'm Jewish, but I don't do like most of the stuff that you guys do and I didn't, you know, experience maybe the Butt Mits Fun I didn't experience kind of like the sbbut dinners on Friday and certain things. Okay, it's really fast. I feel like that adds another layer. It does. I'm a bit more confusion. I'm sure that definitely plays into your identity and your identify who you are and what you're going to do as well. That's actually the first time I asked about religion, because I know that's in itself its own topic, because I think when we talk adoptees to one another, Chinese adoptees, we always talk about speaking Chinese or having to identify as Chinese or Canadian in your case. To think religion does also play a whole another layer that I was excited to bring it up because I'm really curious about that. If she's comfortable. But yeah, yeah, I don't mind talking about it and it's interesting because Judaism isn't just a religion. It's like, you know, it could be whole are Jewish right. Is a culture, it's like a way of life. Religiously, if anything, I lean more towards Christianity. It's again makes it more confusing because that doesn't necessarily like coincide with Judaism, because they're two different like religions. But yeah, so I see. That's pretty that's pretty interesting. I do think like my beliefs and my faith kind of, you know, do guide me in like if I think about adoption, I do kind of think of, like I guess, like things that are meant to happen versus things that are not meant to happen. It's sometimes I think about, you know, the reason for being I don't know if I want to use the word abandoned, because I feel like, you know, as adoptors, we don't even know if that's true, even though it's rightly, I feel like there's some instances I've heard of where people weren't willingly giving up their grain or taking away from them. But kind of...

...thinking about the reason and how it all works out, because it's really interesting to think about how I made it to where I am now and kind of like if there was some other thing that kind of had a a hand in that. Oh yeah, definitely, other than the time that you went back when you were four and a half. Have you been back to China? Do you want to go back to Honjo or? Yeah, Joe is the city that you were adopted from, right. HMM. Yeah, I would definitely want to go back. My Mom said was very beautiful there and she stood on me like a bit of pictures or when she was there, and she even has like a bulk about the city that she's given me that I like look through a little bit. So I definitely want to go back to learn more about like my roots and the culture that I didn't really have growing up, and I think it would I would also like combine it with trying to kind of learn more about the filly and some of the gaps, because, like we don't know a lot of information at all. So if I could get any more answers to the questions I have, that would be really cool. But I also know that I want to keep low expectations because I feel like it is very difficult to do like a search for other birth family or whatever. It is you're trying to find, whether it's just information like medical history or documents about more stuff, maybe that the orphanage didn't tell my mom when she adopted me. So I think I would, yeah, make it like to explore, but I also make it it'd be like a very personal and like emotional experience, because I'm definitely trying to kind of find out, you know, where I came from and what happened to me before, like my mom got me. I agree. So far the adoptees I've spoken with have said some smilar to what you said. It's and I think everybody could relate. It's going to be an emotional journey. I personally went back. KATIEA has also been back to China as well, and it's definitely something that you'll want to take your time with. In general, everything with adoption take your time to it is really good to hear that you are very happy...

...with your family to Canada. Yeah, and I think like because I guess went back by don't remember it. It's like I do want to go back and there's that kind of question of like ones a good time, like when will I be ready? And I don't know if you ever ever ready to kind of fully like just jump into that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's interesting that you have gone back. I don't know, like I know you're the one asking me questions, but like if you want to go back and also, like do feel like you're ready and the time that you went was like a good time for you, because I'm just curious. Yes, I would say I sort of what they perch of just jumping in some letter. How I'm doing this podcast to you. I was interesting going back two years ago, and when I was interesting going back, I sort of spoke with my dad about it because he does go back to China and he already had a trip plan. So when I spoke with him, I said I would like to go back to the orphanage if it's possible, just go back to the city. Even he essentially organized organize the whole trip for me, which was great, and so we went back to the city being bowl, we went back to the orphanage and it was all sort of just very fast before we really think about it, which seems to be the best approach when I go into projects and interest. But that's also how I found the CCI group, that Chinese Children International. Yes, I mean that one as well, that it all sort of spiraled and I'm connected with one adoptee really well. Katie. This podcast is even in its own I almost feel it's a jumping head first before I thought I was really ready for it, and I think it's a it's so far turning out to be very good results. Definitely, going back to the decision to go to China and then doing this podcast, I'd sort of just went into it without really having an expectation and knowing what to expect, which I am just think is a better approach. I do you think it's really a good opportunity if you can, and the timing just worked out that I pretty much jumped on the opportunity as much as soon as...

I could. I think I would have regretted it if I hadn't gone when I had that real strong feeling to go back. I did find out my birthday is my birthday, so that's pretty exciting. That's really cool. I feel like, yeah, that information is so like ambiguous. For a lot of us. It is. I hear that a lot and I thought that's what the case was. I'm sure for me myself and many adoptees feel this way and finding out that my birthday is my birthday was a nice little cherry, I guess, in a way. Definitely recommended if you're ready, for anybody who it's a Chinese's adoptee or any Asian adoptee. It's just any adoptee. I refer to Chinese adoptee because that's the title of this podcast. Everybody should take it in their own time and I know I mentioned in a previous episode. I think it's good to repeat is every couple years or so. It's good to like reevaluate how do you feel, because it can change in a year. You might feel you don't want to go back, but then five years from now you do. It's a pretty emotional dirty I'm sure. I know people also had the same feeling about mother's Day. Yeah, as being past, there's definitely a divide. I think theyre two with people who feel strongly about mother's Day and they're birth mothers, and then others who are I'm really happy with my mom. I mean she was my mom, even though we don't lookalike. Now I'm getting sidetracked out of members asking you, being a Chinese adoptee in Canada and watching a lot of entertainment and media. How do you feel about representation of adoptees, like a film, like the half of it, that just came out of Netflix? Do you also have that film to did watch to actually with some of the adoptees in the subtle Asian adoptee zoom chat, because someone's like Hey, I'm going to do Netflix parties. I want to join so with other adoptees, and that was really cool and I liked it. It's cool and I actually, if I wasn't connected to the adoptee community, I would have not known that the person who plays the main character is adopted. So it's really is adopted. Yeah,...

...yeah, so that's really cool. But I thought it was really cute, like just feel good, like high school romance type, right, and it's just like Oh, it's cute and it's nice to see like the representation. I feel like there's definitely been more to all the boys I've loved before that one was like so oh, yeah, I love there's two movies out and I love the both of them and the with the like craziers Asians. I saw that with my outian sister in theaters and I was like really, well done, I like that. So it's cool. I don't. I don't. It's hard because I feel like a lot of the media and stuff that I consume, it's like a lot of it is from America, like it's I don't know if there's a okay, like Canadian and like American. I'm trying to think. I don't personally know. Like maybe I should make more of an effort to look into like Canadian Asian and like specifically Chinese writers and actors and, you know artists and stuff, because I actually not too familiar. I feel like the some of the Canadans we do have, even if they're not like, you know, Doctor Asian, they go to the America to kind of, you know, that makes her career. They're right. It would be nice to see more like focus on Canadians, you know, who are Asian and everything. But one thing that comes to mind is Kim's convenience is filmed in Toronto and I haven't actually like been to that you know intersection, I guess, of where they kind of did all the the stuff. But that's cool because I'm like, Oh, I know when they're talking about certain streets are they're talking about, oh, she went to, you know, this university or something. It's like, Oh, I actually know that. That's something like a reference that I like understand. Okay, I guess this one example. Yeah, I was wondering. I like, is there a lot of difference? Is there a difference between Canadian entertainment and media? That brings up a whole nother topic about China and the restrictions in China on a lot of entertainment to so I guess, yeah, that's a that's a good question to say. Or if I ever talk to a Chinese adoptee in China, maybe, yeah, like people who maybe have lived there, gone back and kind of that. That would be really cool because I met...

...would be really cool. No, to many people who've done that. I don't either. Is there? Is there anything you would want to hear from other adoptees or people who adoption has become a big part of their life? It's interesting that I feel like just in connecting more with other people to like facebook groups or I mean like this podcast and stuff, I've already like learned so much more than I knew before about adoption, because I mean all I had before was just my own experience and when I've gone through and then kind of connecting with other people and realizing, wow, there's actually a vast, you know, variation and experiences and feelings and on certain topics or, you know, things that we've gone through, and that's been cool. I think just continuing to learn more about how, you know, some might not feel the same way or think about something in the same way as me in terms of if it's adoption related or just being an adoptee and your view on something else. So I just always love like learning other people's stories, which I think it's great doing this podcast, you know me and up an opportunity to listen to other people's stories and then turn people listen to my story and some of the things. That's exactly and yeah, that's why I did like my undergart research, because I was really just in learning more. But like kind of now with it, like the adoptee community online, it just opened it up beyond Canada and right hold it are like physically close to me in Canada, in Ontario. So just kind of plating more about people's thoughts and feelings on things more and also just, I guess from my geographical background, about just thinking of place in space and how people you know have felt, you know, in different times of their lives or you know, maybe if they've moved, you know how or in different us is like university versus, you know, when they were still living at home or you know, wherever they grew up. Just thinking about how your thoughts and feelings and everything changes over time and space, because exactly cool to think about. And, like you said, like I'm in Canada and my experiences are different from people in the...

United States. But then even you know where I am compared to a bigger city like Toronto, I feel like that's even enough of the difference. True, I create different experiences and thoughts, so I'm just always yeah, I guess interested in that aspect too. That's very cool. Would you like to share your instagram because I'm sure people but would love to follow you if they listen. Oh, yeah, for instagram. Yeah, yeah, my user name is see underscore shell. Seven shelves has has said in it not an s the private account. But if I see that, like I don't know how you can Telson's adopted, but if I think your adoptee, I will definitely like i. e. back and everything. So that's there. I mean that's how you found the PODCAST, actually, with student Instagram to which is pretty sweet. Perfect. Well, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. It is pretty interesting getting your perspective and I was really excited to get somebody outside of the US to so great. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity this, you know, this platform, to kind of, you know, insert my little two cents on some of these topics. Of course. Good luck with your next step. I know did you just finish your masters too, and as we are in a pandemic, probably will be one this food we releases to it that you'll be looking for work and everything as well. Yeah, some kind of trying to figure out what I want to do next. And just like my passion for adoption related stuff, I feel like in my interest and desire to learn more is just grown. So if I can somehow connect my, you know, academic skills and experience to the kind of this interest, I'd be so cool. I'm still figuring out because I get, I don't know, too many resources in in my area, a lot of it. I know there's a lot in the states, but I'm still kind of exploring what's out there if there's anything I can involved over here. So that'd be really cool. That's potential next steps that would be. That's definitely more concrete than I can share my own.

It's a very confusing time. Yeah, it is. It is. I mean I put on a proper dress today just to feel like any normal until then, goodbye for now. I'm sure we'll stay in touch each other using calls. I'm going to keep using that platform to get the guy to come on this podcast at some point. Thank you for listening to ABC. We are on major podcast platforms, including apple and spotify. Email adopted babies from China at GMAILCOM or you can direct message DM adopted babies from China pod on instagram. He's also adopted babies from China pod on facebook as well, if you would like to share your story. Thank you.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (61)